Debating on going to an air system this year. Looking for your experience or view points either for or against.
I'm tired of all the problems I'm having with 12v pumps. Constantly replacing for multitude of reasons (and I rinse)
AND
I'm always looking for more performance when I'm out working. Many times I wish I had more distance (w/o shooter tip) and almost always wish I could lay down more mix on a roof especially large flat ones.
Feels like 12volt is holding me back and thinking that air system might be the solution.
What do you guys use and why?
Jeff Wible said
Dec 17, 2019
Hey Erik,..gonna get many different responses here I'm certain,..Ha,Ha,...and none will be wrong,..just personal preference.
I prefer air as a dedicated pump,...I have had my All-Flo for probably 5 years now and it works the same as it did from day one. With the proper set-up it will be stall free 99% of the season. The benefit is resiliency and reliability. The compressor is the biggest downfall,..takes up space and weighs around 200 LBs.
You can also use any nozzle you want,..you can restrict it down to almost nothing.
But,..I only use the air for roofs,..and very large flatwork where a really strong solution is needed,..like flagstone.
I downstream houses,..whereas many are using booster pumps to apply and rinse houses. Comes down to personal choice.
I use three 12V 1 GPM pumps,..two in spot sprayers,..and a third I have on a hand truck,..I use it for applying gutter mix 90% of the time,...is also used for deck stripping off and on,..and also use it when the air rig is too much,..but DS'ing isn't strong enough,..so I will use it for smaller areas,..like concrete sidewalks,..small patios, etc,...
I have 4 separate methods to apply:
DS'ing
Dedicated Roof Pump
(5) gallon bucket sprayer with 50' hose reel
And two (1) gallon spot sprayers,..one loaded with 12.5% and the other loaded with an acid.
Point is,..not one size fits all,...at least not for me.
Jeff
BlueRidge said
Dec 17, 2019
I wish I could be helpful with air but I can't. I decided to go the booster pump route with on board generators. I don't like the idea of plugging into a GFI on the house.
Art O said
Dec 17, 2019
Erik can your truck suspension hold the weight of an air system?
Jeff Wible said
Dec 17, 2019
Erik,..up till now have you been soaping and rinsing with 12V? Do you use a PW at all? I guess is what I'm asking. A properly setup PW is one of the most versatile pieces of equipments available in exterior cleaning.
Ha, Ha,..you're gonna get more advice and ideas than you expected on this topic. We're just here to help,..and you can make the decision that suits you best,..after much evaluation of course!
I have to do layout when bed goes on so holding off on ordering most of the stuff just in case
I should have plenty of room for a compressor and weight capacity.
I've been using a 12v to apply and garden hose to rinse. Plus a pw and surface cleaner on truck.
My main concern is lack of performance. Always feels like I'm waiting for coverage on roofs. And can always use distance on tall and large homes and buildings. I've had bad luck w 12v from bolts snapping to pumps dying in a week. I keep telling myself there has to be a better way.
I want to hear different experiences.
As always I'll keep things simple and clean on the rig. Easier to maintain and operate.
Jeff Wible said
Dec 18, 2019
Erik,..I think your choice will be between air and the booster pumps. I have no experience with booster pumps so others will have to chime in on the pros/cons.
I personally would be using the PW to apply soap and rinse,...and is what I do now. I just prefer it. There are pros and cons to alot of the choices we make in this business.
Jeff
DirtyRoofcom said
Dec 18, 2019
Jeff. I think your right and I'm leaning that direction.
Never rinsed w powerwash before or down streamed a house. Old powerwasher was too complicated to set up. This year it will be just a matter of starting the engine and pulling hose from hose reel. Excited to see the difference in speed.
-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Wednesday 18th of December 2019 10:17:43 AM
Art O said
Dec 18, 2019
DirtyRoofcom wrote:
Jeff. I think your right and I'm leaning that direction.
Never rinsed w powerwash before or down streamed a house. Old powerwasher was too complicated to set up. This year it will be just a matter of starting the engine and pulling hose from hose reel. Excited to see the difference in speed.
Eric take the water filter off that machine, it will jam up within a month
Jeff Wible said
Dec 19, 2019
Erik,..if you decide to look into DS'ing as an alternate application method,...let me know and I will help you out with it and the options that are available.
Jeff
Doug Rucker said
Dec 19, 2019
started with 12V, went to air, went to gas operated UDOR, back to air, then to booster, back to air, back to 12V, back to air, and staying with air. Just the most dependable and reliable dedicated pump I've found. Just completed a truck skid build a couple months ago an LOVE IT....no more trailers.
started with 12V, went to air, went to gas operated UDOR, back to air, then to booster, back to air, back to 12V, back to air, and staying with air. Just the most dependable and reliable dedicated pump I've found. Just completed a truck skid build a couple months ago an LOVE IT....no more trailers.
I
Wow Doug, That is a great build! it looks so easy to work on without everything packed into a skid in the bed.
Now that I see the small compressor I might look into air for the flatbed coming in January. I might be paying a lot of attention to this thread since I have the booster down but not air. In the end I most likely will stay with the booster because I have so much stuff already and will not have to buy much for this flatbed set up. I'll see as this thread moves along. Hell, all the other stuff I have will always be good for back up WHEN something breaks!
DirtyRoofcom said
Dec 19, 2019
Doug what size compressor is that and what pump is it running? That thing sure looks smaller than what everyone else is using.
Pat needs another rig, sure he would love what you got in that truck
Doug Rucker said
Dec 19, 2019
4 GPM portable pontoon air compressor
5 HP Honda Industrial OHC/OHV premium residential gas engine
155 PSI Max Pressure
Maximum Pressure: CFM at 90 PSI: 5.0; CFM at 40 PSI:6.9;
7gpm flo jet.
Jeff Wible said
Dec 20, 2019
One thing about air,..whether you prefer it or not,...if it's setup properly,..it is the most reliable dedicated pump system there is.
It just works. But, there are tweaks that make an air unit better. I've had experience with three different brands,..
Versamatic, Yamada,..and the best by far is the All-Flo,.... I use the popular 3/8" model. Requires 9 CFM to run at full flow. Typically run coupled to wheelbarrow compressors.
These All-Flo's cost around $400-$500 but last a long time. They are very much stall free right out of the box.
Using a water trap is always a good idea,..and also using a coiled up 50" piece of hose running from the compressor to the pump,...
gives the air time to cool and condense,..allowing the water trao to work as it was designed,...catching droplets,..not vapor.
Also,..if you can run the coiled up hose through your water supply it will work at cooling even better.
I mentioned this several years ago and have been doing it ever since. I can only remember one stall last season,..
and that is very acceptable. For those unfamiliar with "stall",..it basically means,...when you open your trigger or ball valve and nothing happens.
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Friday 20th of December 2019 05:46:23 AM
DirtyRoofcom said
Dec 20, 2019
Jeff can you list details of your compressor and pump? Model #'s?
Doug Rucker said
Dec 20, 2019
After years of being very neglectful with this, I found that draining the tanks before very job, and even sometimes during big job's prevented a large amount of the stalling. Using a tsunami and coiled hose seemed like it never had much affect on the stalling for us, and that could be because of the humidity here, not sure.
BUT.......We still do that though, coiling of the hose and use a Tsunami air/water separator, as I do believe it makes sense and does help, but frequent draining is where we noticed the biggest difference. Never tried the coiled hose in the water supply...interesting idea....
Western Mass Prowash said
Dec 20, 2019
I have been using air for the last 4 years and love it. I started out with a Yamada 1/2" and I was having problems with it stalling even with the tsunami and coiled air hose. I ended up going to a All-Flo 1/2" my second year and couldn't be happier. Never have I had a problem and I can reach pretty much any peak I come across using different nozzles. I have it setup with 200' of 5/8" Kuri Tec hose. Part of my daily routine is draining water from the air tanks and giving it a shot of WD-40 through the air line. I guess one of the down sides is the space the compressor takes.
Doug Rucker said
Dec 20, 2019
I've got a 1/2 All flo on a trailer rig and love it....we use it mainly for bigger commercial jobs.....
Western Mass Prowash said
Dec 20, 2019
Doug, I really like your build. Looks like a Lee skid. I just bought a new F250 8' bed with the intentions of going to a skid from my enclosed trailer and getting out of DOT and paying for trailer storage.
Jeff Wible said
Dec 20, 2019
Hey Erik,.. Here is the pump and compressor I use. My compressor is about 12 years old I'd say. Never replaced anything but the belt and air intake on the compressor pump. Belt didn't fail,..I just did a maintenance replacement. But, has been painted a few times,.."Machine Green". h,..and had to put a new kill switch on the Honda,..no big deal.
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Friday 20th of December 2019 09:27:51 AM
Jeff Wible said
Dec 20, 2019
Hey Doug,..yea,..I never ran the coiled up hose in the air,..mine has always been submerged and made a considerable difference in stalling. I don't even use a great water trap,...the coiled hose through water likely cools much better than air cooled,..allowing the trap to function as it should. Especially if the hose is exposed to the Sun,..wouldn't be enough cooling effect.
Tractor Supply sells a cheap 50' air hose (Red),..it's like $9.99,...and that's what I used.
You could even use 100' coiled up in a tank,..would give it even more time to cool.
Jeff
Doug Rucker said
Dec 20, 2019
Chris Gunther from South Carolina built it, I was just a little more impressed with his welds, plus he's been around the biz many years, even back to the old PWI days.
Western Mass Prowash said
Dec 21, 2019
Doug Rucker wrote:
Chris Gunther from South Carolina built it, I was just a little more impressed with his welds, plus he's been around the biz many years, even back to the old PWI days.
Yes. I am thinking the same. I spoke to Chris about his skids and he is a good guy.
DirtyRoofcom said
Dec 30, 2019
Need help making decisions
All-flo pump 3/8" or 1/2" ?
What size compressor for 1/2"
Can you use 1/2" application hose with a 1/2" pump?
Jeff Wible said
Dec 31, 2019
Hey Erik,..I mostly do residential,..and have always found the 3/8" to be adequate,..doesn't leave me wanting more flow. The 3/8" and a decent wheelbarrow compressor with enough CFM is a nice combination.
I use 200'x1/2" hose. There's no reason you can't use 1/2" hose,..but due to the extra output of the pump,..it may make more sense to run 5/8". I say that only because if you're going to go with the bigger pump for more flow,..would be pointless to restrict the output. Or maybe it wouldn't I don't know for sure.
Make sure you get the Kynar version of whichever pump you buy. The 3/8" I have is Kynar with Teflon diaphragms. This is the second one I've had. My first was a Yamada 1/2",..wasn't impressed,..then I bought a Versa-Matic,..POS,...then went back to All-Flo Model# KE038B3
Jeff
BlueRidge said
Dec 31, 2019
The only thing I know about air is what I have read but when it comes to pumps, I would use 1/2". When you add the length of hose and some of the heights you do, 1/2" pump with 1/2" hose would be fine. My only concern about going to 5/8" is remembering when I started and used 5/8", listening to the wrong people. I do not miss the weight. When you go to those heights you will be adding more head pressure with 5/8", I have no clue if that will affect the air pump. I do know it will kill a 12V fast!
DirtyRoofcom said
Dec 31, 2019
Thanks guys!
Jeff Wible said
Jan 1, 2020
Erik,..after further thought,..if I understand right,...you are wanting this system for house washing along with roof cleaning?
I would go with the bigger system. I personally couldn't imagine using my roof rig for house washing. I prefer DS'ing for house washing. Much more versatile,.. 20-600 PSI.
Jeff
Brian C Jackson said
Jan 2, 2020
I started with 12v and then I went to Air ( 3/8 allflo ) and now we use Booster. I would never go back to 12v after using Air. 12v is a good starting point and is good for employee based businesses. Air requires very low maintenance and is the most reliable and longest lasting system on the market. An air system will out perform a 12v without a problem and will outlast a 12v. I used my All-flo for over 5yrs before I went to booster and the all-flo still works to this day.
Debating on going to an air system this year. Looking for your experience or view points either for or against.
I'm tired of all the problems I'm having with 12v pumps. Constantly replacing for multitude of reasons (and I rinse)
AND
I'm always looking for more performance when I'm out working. Many times I wish I had more distance (w/o shooter tip) and almost always wish I could lay down more mix on a roof especially large flat ones.
Feels like 12volt is holding me back and thinking that air system might be the solution.
What do you guys use and why?
I prefer air as a dedicated pump,...I have had my All-Flo for probably 5 years now and it works the same as it did from day one. With the proper set-up it will be stall free 99% of the season. The benefit is resiliency and reliability. The compressor is the biggest downfall,..takes up space and weighs around 200 LBs.
You can also use any nozzle you want,..you can restrict it down to almost nothing.
But,..I only use the air for roofs,..and very large flatwork where a really strong solution is needed,..like flagstone.
I downstream houses,..whereas many are using booster pumps to apply and rinse houses. Comes down to personal choice.
I use three 12V 1 GPM pumps,..two in spot sprayers,..and a third I have on a hand truck,..I use it for applying gutter mix 90% of the time,...is also used for deck stripping off and on,..and also use it when the air rig is too much,..but DS'ing isn't strong enough,..so I will use it for smaller areas,..like concrete sidewalks,..small patios, etc,...
I have 4 separate methods to apply:
DS'ing
Dedicated Roof Pump
(5) gallon bucket sprayer with 50' hose reel
And two (1) gallon spot sprayers,..one loaded with 12.5% and the other loaded with an acid.
Point is,..not one size fits all,...at least not for me.
Jeff
I wish I could be helpful with air but I can't. I decided to go the booster pump route with on board generators. I don't like the idea of plugging into a GFI on the house.
Ha, Ha,..you're gonna get more advice and ideas than you expected on this topic. We're just here to help,..and you can make the decision that suits you best,..after much evaluation of course!
Jeff
This year setup
F250 getting 7x9 flatbed in a week or so.
6.3gpm @3500 pressure washer (already have)
3x hose reels Hannay E1526-17-18
2x 100 gallon tanks tall 1 chem 1 buffer
Soap tank(s)
200ft PW hose
200ft chem hose
150ft water hose
Mixing valve
I have to do layout when bed goes on so holding off on ordering most of the stuff just in case
I should have plenty of room for a compressor and weight capacity.
I've been using a 12v to apply and garden hose to rinse. Plus a pw and surface cleaner on truck.
My main concern is lack of performance. Always feels like I'm waiting for coverage on roofs. And can always use distance on tall and large homes and buildings. I've had bad luck w 12v from bolts snapping to pumps dying in a week. I keep telling myself there has to be a better way.
I want to hear different experiences.
As always I'll keep things simple and clean on the rig. Easier to maintain and operate.
I personally would be using the PW to apply soap and rinse,...and is what I do now. I just prefer it. There are pros and cons to alot of the choices we make in this business.
Jeff
Jeff. I think your right and I'm leaning that direction.
Never rinsed w powerwash before or down streamed a house. Old powerwasher was too complicated to set up. This year it will be just a matter of starting the engine and pulling hose from hose reel. Excited to see the difference in speed.
-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Wednesday 18th of December 2019 10:17:43 AM
Eric take the water filter off that machine, it will jam up within a month
Jeff
started with 12V, went to air, went to gas operated UDOR, back to air, then to booster, back to air, back to 12V, back to air, and staying with air. Just the most dependable and reliable dedicated pump I've found. Just completed a truck skid build a couple months ago an LOVE IT....no more trailers.
Wow Doug, That is a great build! it looks so easy to work on without everything packed into a skid in the bed.
Now that I see the small compressor I might look into air for the flatbed coming in January. I might be paying a lot of attention to this thread since I have the booster down but not air. In the end I most likely will stay with the booster because I have so much stuff already and will not have to buy much for this flatbed set up. I'll see as this thread moves along. Hell, all the other stuff I have will always be good for back up WHEN something breaks!
Doug what size compressor is that and what pump is it running? That thing sure looks smaller than what everyone else is using.
Pat needs another rig, sure he would love what you got in that truck
One thing about air,..whether you prefer it or not,...if it's setup properly,..it is the most reliable dedicated pump system there is.
It just works. But, there are tweaks that make an air unit better. I've had experience with three different brands,..
Versamatic, Yamada,..and the best by far is the All-Flo,....
I use the popular 3/8" model. Requires 9 CFM to run at full flow. Typically run coupled to wheelbarrow compressors.
These All-Flo's cost around $400-$500 but last a long time. They are very much stall free right out of the box.
Using a water trap is always a good idea,..and also using a coiled up 50" piece of hose running from the compressor to the pump,...
gives the air time to cool and condense,..allowing the water trao to work as it was designed,...catching droplets,..not vapor.
Also,..if you can run the coiled up hose through your water supply it will work at cooling even better.
I mentioned this several years ago and have been doing it ever since. I can only remember one stall last season,..
and that is very acceptable. For those unfamiliar with "stall",..it basically means,...when you open your trigger or ball valve and nothing happens.
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Friday 20th of December 2019 05:46:23 AM
BUT.......We still do that though, coiling of the hose and use a Tsunami air/water separator, as I do believe it makes sense and does help, but frequent draining is where we noticed the biggest difference. Never tried the coiled hose in the water supply...interesting idea....
I've got a 1/2 All flo on a trailer rig and love it....we use it mainly for bigger commercial jobs.....
Hey Erik,.. Here is the pump and compressor I use. My compressor is about 12 years old I'd say. Never replaced anything but the belt and air intake on the compressor pump. Belt didn't fail,..I just did a maintenance replacement. But, has been painted a few times,.."Machine Green". h,..and had to put a new kill switch on the Honda,..no big deal.
https://shop.pressurewasherproducts.com/ALL-FLO-3-8-AIR-DIAPHRAGM-PUMP-9-GPM-FOR-SOFTWASH-KE038B3-AFKE038B3.htm
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5-1-2-hp-8-gallon-gas-wheelbarrow-air-compressor
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Friday 20th of December 2019 09:27:51 AM
Tractor Supply sells a cheap 50' air hose (Red),..it's like $9.99,...and that's what I used.
You could even use 100' coiled up in a tank,..would give it even more time to cool.
Jeff
Chris Gunther from South Carolina built it, I was just a little more impressed with his welds, plus he's been around the biz many years, even back to the old PWI days.
Yes. I am thinking the same. I spoke to Chris about his skids and he is a good guy.
All-flo pump 3/8" or 1/2" ?
What size compressor for 1/2"
Can you use 1/2" application hose with a 1/2" pump?
I use 200'x1/2" hose. There's no reason you can't use 1/2" hose,..but due to the extra output of the pump,..it may make more sense to run 5/8". I say that only because if you're going to go with the bigger pump for more flow,..would be pointless to restrict the output. Or maybe it wouldn't I don't know for sure.
Make sure you get the Kynar version of whichever pump you buy. The 3/8" I have is Kynar with Teflon diaphragms. This is the second one I've had. My first was a Yamada 1/2",..wasn't impressed,..then I bought a Versa-Matic,..POS,...then went back to All-Flo Model# KE038B3
Jeff
The only thing I know about air is what I have read but when it comes to pumps, I would use 1/2". When you add the length of hose and some of the heights you do, 1/2" pump with 1/2" hose would be fine. My only concern about going to 5/8" is remembering when I started and used 5/8", listening to the wrong people. I do not miss the weight. When you go to those heights you will be adding more head pressure with 5/8", I have no clue if that will affect the air pump. I do know it will kill a 12V fast!
I would go with the bigger system. I personally couldn't imagine using my roof rig for house washing. I prefer DS'ing for house washing. Much more versatile,.. 20-600 PSI.
Jeff