I have been working on a solution for a customer since fall '13 to solve his odd discoloration on his not very old copper roof. I have tried a number of things I will list below and have even emailed and talked to Gary Millard, President at Winsol Laboratories. I also contacted Copper Development Association. They stated, "it could be the result of the stain inhibitors used during manufacturing to give the copper shelf life. Cleaning back to pink salmon would allow the roof to age uniformly. One recommended method is: wash with detergent to remove dirt and oil, A mild alkaline cleaner may also be used with a pressure washer." put am still having a little trouble. Some products have worked but nothing has been able to keep this odd discoloration from returning. The one thing that worked best so far has been vinegar and salt mix with a gel and washed off the next day. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. As you can guess, if I can get this to work... I'll be the man in this high end community. I'm also thinking that once I get it to a place he likes, I might have to come by once or even twice a year to keep this odd change from happening.
Salt, vinegar & gel.
One Restore
Winsol Products: Deep Clean, Special Metals Cleaner
My first thought was those Tarn X commercials where they dropped a penny in a glass and pulled it out shiny and new. If there is some preservation chemical interfering with the natural oxidizing process, stripping it would seem to be the first step.
here's the MSDS for Tarn X... http://lakefrontsupply.com/MSDS/Jelmar_TarnX/TarnX%20Tarnish%20Remover.pdf
Are they looking for the copper to "patina" (green)?
Dave said
Mar 21, 2014
In order to get copper back to its original color you will need to clean the entire roof by hand. And then you can seal it. It will still turn color, but not as fast. On a roof that size I would say you are looking at two to three weeks to finish the job. If you have not done any copper roofs yet this would not be one I would start on. If it is not done right, the copper will change color as you clean above or below where you have cleaned already.
SprayWash said
Mar 21, 2014
Brett:
I've used a product call "One Restore" on copper and copper staining with very good results. Its a buffered HCA soap. It stings a tad but, wear protective gear. Runs about $100 per 5 gallons
Here are some copper stains we removed from concrete by softwashing!
My first thought was those Tarn X commercials where they dropped a penny in a glass and pulled it out shiny and new. If there is some preservation chemical interfering with the natural oxidizing process, stripping it would seem to be the first step.
here's the MSDS for Tarn X... http://lakefrontsupply.com/MSDS/Jelmar_TarnX/TarnX%20Tarnish%20Remover.pdf
Are they looking for the copper to "patina" (green)?
I have also thought about Tarn X. He doesn't care what the end color is as long as it's one color... like what it "should" look like when it turns black.
BlueRidge said
Mar 21, 2014
Dave wrote:
In order to get copper back to its original color you will need to clean the entire roof by hand. And then you can seal it. It will still turn color, but not as fast. On a roof that size I would say you are looking at two to three weeks to finish the job. If you have not done any copper roofs yet this would not be one I would start on. If it is not done right, the copper will change color as you clean above or below where you have cleaned already.
We did have some good luck with some of the Winsol products. They cleaned well but that strange discoloration returned. What would you seal the copper with Dave?
Dave O said
Mar 21, 2014
Up here in the Chicago land area we don't have that problem with copper roofs. If someone installed a copper roof, it will be stripped away by thieves before it has time to discolor...LOL!
BlueRidge said
Mar 21, 2014
SprayWash wrote:
Brett:
I've used a product call "One Restore" on copper and copper staining with very good results. Its a buffered HCA soap. It stings a tad but, wear protective gear. Runs about $100 per 5 gallons
Here are some copper stains we removed from concrete by softwashing!
One Restore was one of my first attempts since it does about everything. It didn't do much at all.
SprayWash said
Mar 21, 2014
BlueRidge wrote:
SprayWash wrote:
Brett:
I've used a product call "One Restore" on copper and copper staining with very good results. Its a buffered HCA soap. It stings a tad but, wear protective gear. Runs about $100 per 5 gallons
Here are some copper stains we removed from concrete by softwashing!
One Restore was one of my first attempts since it does about everything. It didn't do much at all.
Dang...I'm surprised. That stuff usually works miracles. I wonder if thats the wax coating failing? Maybe try a wax floor stripper?
Art O said
Mar 21, 2014
Marcus had a problem with copper. I think he used Trany fluid to get the green tarnish off the gutters from the bleach from when he cleaned the roof
BlueRidge said
Mar 21, 2014
Art O wrote:
Marcus had a problem with copper. I think he used Trany fluid to get the green tarnish off the gutters from the bleach from when he cleaned the roof
I really wish it was that easy Art. There is some kind of environmental thing going on. I'm hoping to find out what the sealer is that Dave mentioned.
Dave said
Mar 22, 2014
Brett, I sent you a message. And you are right, it is "environmental" thing that is going on. But, probally not what you think. It has to do with the type of cleaner and the water you are using.
Art O said
May 17, 2014
So hows the copper cleaning going?
Fred W said
May 17, 2014
Dave wrote:
In order to get copper back to its original color you will need to clean the entire roof by hand. And then you can seal it. It will still turn color, but not as fast. On a roof that size I would say you are looking at two to three weeks to finish the job. If you have not done any copper roofs yet this would not be one I would start on. If it is not done right, the copper will change color as you clean above or below where you have cleaned already.
Mind you I have only cleaned one copper roof piece but what Dave said was it. It needed to be done by hand and was a painstaking chore. I tried many products and ideas.....mostly to see what worked best. The amazing thing was that a certain product would work on one panel but not another and vice versa. Also, if you let a cleaned piece sit for a day it will start to tarnish no matter how much you rinse. Then a little splash of cleaner on your already clean section can leave a streak.
BlueRidge said
May 17, 2014
Art O wrote:
So hows the copper cleaning going?
I have a product and a method that I will be using to clean and seal only the front of this home since it will be expensive. I am sworn to secrecy on any public posts due to competition of my secret source. We will do one more test with these new products, then he gets the price and we bust our tails for about a week. I will update when we finish.
Doug Rucker said
May 17, 2014
Good Luck Brett
Jeff Wible said
May 20, 2014
Copper is always wanting to turn to a patina state,..gonna be hard to keep it from happening,...especially on a roof, where the Sun and rain pelt it continually. Most, if not all the people I know prefer the "Old World" look of the patina rather than the shiny copper look. But, if I were asked to clean it to a copper color,..one of my first choices would be hydrofluoric,.. it will brighten metals, where hydrochloric tends to darken them,..I think One Restore is hydrochloric based,..and oxalic can't be mixed strong enough. Or hand buffing,..which is almost inconceivable considering all the longer it would last,...especially considering the cost.
Jeff
BlueRidge said
May 20, 2014
Jeff Wible wrote:
Copper is always wanting to turn to a patina state,..gonna be hard to keep it from happening,...especially on a roof, where the Sun and rain pelt it continually. Most, if not all the people I know prefer the "Old World" look of the patina rather than the shiny copper look. But, if I were asked to clean it to a copper color,..one of my first choices would be hydrofluoric,.. it will brighten metals, where hydrochloric tends to darken them,..I think One Restore is hydrochloric based,..and oxalic can't be mixed strong enough. Or hand buffing,..which is almost inconceivable considering all the longer it would last,...especially considering the cost.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff. He isn't looking for shinny and would be real happy with the patina look or even black. This roof has some strange colors going on so we will try to get at least one side looking good. It's in a big time "Jones" neighborhood.
Jeff Wible said
May 20, 2014
If you want black throw on some Sodium Hydroxide. That'll make it black.
Jeff
BlueRidge said
Jun 1, 2014
Yesterday was the final test with good results. Many thanks to Dave Dykstra for sending me in the right direction!
It was fairly easy to get the results in the pictures. Just took a soft bush on a pole, applied the solution, waited... tested a spot to see how well it was cutting through. Then, a bucket of water and brushed off the solution. Needless to say, the customer is thrilled. Now he wants to apply some sodium hydroxide as Jeff suggested and see what the black color will look like. We were going to add a sealer but he really wants on color, black roof.
Thanks to everyone for your help and input. Once we finish the job I will make a new post with before during and after pictures.
I have been working on a solution for a customer since fall '13 to solve his odd discoloration on his not very old copper roof. I have tried a number of things I will list below and have even emailed and talked to Gary Millard, President at Winsol Laboratories. I also contacted Copper Development Association. They stated, "it could be the result of the stain inhibitors used during manufacturing to give the copper shelf life. Cleaning back to pink salmon would allow the roof to age uniformly. One recommended method is: wash with detergent to remove dirt and oil, A mild alkaline cleaner may also be used with a pressure washer." put am still having a little trouble. Some products have worked but nothing has been able to keep this odd discoloration from returning. The one thing that worked best so far has been vinegar and salt mix with a gel and washed off the next day. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. As you can guess, if I can get this to work... I'll be the man in this high end community. I'm also thinking that once I get it to a place he likes, I might have to come by once or even twice a year to keep this odd change from happening.
Salt, vinegar & gel.
One Restore
Winsol Products: Deep Clean, Special Metals Cleaner
Oxalic acid
My first thought was those Tarn X commercials where they dropped a penny in a glass and pulled it out shiny and new. If there is some preservation chemical interfering with the natural oxidizing process, stripping it would seem to be the first step.
here's the MSDS for Tarn X... http://lakefrontsupply.com/MSDS/Jelmar_TarnX/TarnX%20Tarnish%20Remover.pdf
Are they looking for the copper to "patina" (green)?
Brett:
I've used a product call "One Restore" on copper and copper staining with very good results. Its a buffered HCA soap. It stings a tad but, wear protective gear. Runs about $100 per 5 gallons
Here are some copper stains we removed from concrete by softwashing!
I have also thought about Tarn X. He doesn't care what the end color is as long as it's one color... like what it "should" look like when it turns black.
We did have some good luck with some of the Winsol products. They cleaned well but that strange discoloration returned. What would you seal the copper with Dave?
One Restore was one of my first attempts since it does about everything. It didn't do much at all.
Dang...I'm surprised. That stuff usually works miracles. I wonder if thats the wax coating failing? Maybe try a wax floor stripper?
I really wish it was that easy Art. There is some kind of environmental thing going on. I'm hoping to find out what the sealer is that Dave mentioned.
Mind you I have only cleaned one copper roof piece but what Dave said was it. It needed to be done by hand and was a painstaking chore. I tried many products and ideas.....mostly to see what worked best. The amazing thing was that a certain product would work on one panel but not another and vice versa. Also, if you let a cleaned piece sit for a day it will start to tarnish no matter how much you rinse. Then a little splash of cleaner on your already clean section can leave a streak.
I have a product and a method that I will be using to clean and seal only the front of this home since it will be expensive. I am sworn to secrecy on any public posts due to competition of my secret source. We will do one more test with these new products, then he gets the price and we bust our tails for about a week. I will update when we finish.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff. He isn't looking for shinny and would be real happy with the patina look or even black. This roof has some strange colors going on so we will try to get at least one side looking good. It's in a big time "Jones" neighborhood.
Jeff
Yesterday was the final test with good results. Many thanks to Dave Dykstra for sending me in the right direction!
It was fairly easy to get the results in the pictures. Just took a soft bush on a pole, applied the solution, waited... tested a spot to see how well it was cutting through. Then, a bucket of water and brushed off the solution. Needless to say, the customer is thrilled. Now he wants to apply some sodium hydroxide as Jeff suggested and see what the black color will look like. We were going to add a sealer but he really wants on color, black roof.
Thanks to everyone for your help and input. Once we finish the job I will make a new post with before during and after pictures.