Since July I am on my third booster pump replacement. Using very sporactially Im fortunate to get a month from one. It's on the booster pump skid. I cant help but believe there is some type of restriction problem that I cant find.
If I call the Power Wash Store they say you cant leave it in bypass. Andy you cant leave in bypass. Thats the only thing it can be other than your customers power source is in adequate. Neither are the case because as time consuming and costly as it is I eliminate those chances by.
We have a 100' 10 ga extension cord. We have a pigtail wired to a 30 amp breaker that we install to the customers power source. I have a man stationed at the truck to turn the pump on when Im ready to spray and turn it off when I stop. Power Wash Store will not accept the fact their could be a problem that Im not smart enough to figure out. If any one has any suggestions it will be appreciated.
-- Edited by Andy Hinson on Tuesday 18th of October 2016 09:40:07 PM
Bryan P said
Oct 18, 2016
Hope you figure it out! That sounds like a huge headache. I know a lot of guys are using booster pumps successfully, so there's GOT to be an answer. If you haven't, give Tim Aselton a shout. Since you're using the proportioner, he might have some thoughts.
BlueRidge said
Oct 19, 2016
Ray and Doug use boosters but they are not on skid systems. I hope one or both will chime in. When I do the rebuild this winter I will be using the booster tank to cool the mix while in bypass. I'm also going to add a 2000 w generator just for the booster. That 10 ga cord is more than enough to handle the load. Have you considered a call to the pump manufacturer? I'm sure there is a way around this Andy.
There is a ton of good experience here so I do hope collectively there is an answer.
Dave said
Oct 19, 2016
how is it failing? motor giving out, leaking, no pressure?
Jeff Wible said
Oct 19, 2016
@Dave,..it sounds like an over heating issue leading to motor burn out to me,. simply because he's mentioning the extension cord and breaker?
If this is the case,.isn't there a over heat protection and a reset button like many AC motors have?
@Andy,...If you have a guy turning it on and off why do you even have a by-pass? On that note,.why not use a pressure switch?
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Wednesday 19th of October 2016 07:35:50 AM
Andy Hinson said
Oct 19, 2016
I have worked with Ray on some jobs. He was pulling chems from a tank and using customers power. When I sent my first one back to PWS I figured it was toasted because it got so hot you couldn't touch it. They said they replaced the stacks in the pump and said quit letting it run dry.
The replacement Flotec from Northern Tool did the same thing and they sent a replacement. The one thats now gone bad by loosing pressure and over heating is the Flotec I was using while PWS worked on the other one.
The pumps start making cracking sounds as I am using them. I dont think thats normal but it is with my system.
I believe the stacks are going bad since thats what PWS replaced. There are no instructions for properly setting the by pass but mine seems to be straining under pressure.
With the Proportioner the soap comes through the line almost instantly. It takes a while for the SH to get through the line. Always has taken awhile.
Andy Hinson said
Oct 19, 2016
Dave wrote:
how is it failing? motor giving out, leaking, no pressure?
Starts loosing pressure and getting hot and kicking off
Steve Salley said
Oct 19, 2016
Hopefully this long winded version of what we experienced can help you Andy
I have been using the same booster pump for this entire season. I use the Dayton from Grainger that was being used by most until they switched units with the big one PWS switched to.
It developed a case leak and Grainger sent me a brand new pump for free. We never got around to switching it and just kept running it.
It had gotten weak as far as pushing when running thru the pro portioner last week and I thought I might have to put the shiny new one on to complete the season. But maybe not--
Last week the bypass valve blew up and could not be put back together. I had to improvise and decided to eliminate it completely. Wow! That bypass was absolutely restricting our pumps. The output is TWICE what we were getting with the bypass system plumbed in. It shoots at least 10 feet higher than before. We do not baby the pump and while we rinse it out, again I am not fanatical about doing it.
I do not allow it to run several minutes long without hitting the trigger, but we are not crazy about shutting it down everytime. I allow it to run and just hit the trigger now and then to cycle the water. Today, working by myself I finished a cedar shake roof system, and then did the housewash on 10000 square feet, gutter brightened and rinsed with just the booster. It has to be the ugliest pump we have on the truck, due to the case leaks but it just keeps pumping away!
Maybe it would be worth eliminating the bypass system and go straight thru the pump like we did.
Just my two cents worth.
BlueRidge said
Oct 19, 2016
Jeff Wible wrote:
@Dave,..it sounds like an over heating issue leading to motor burn out to me,. simply because he's mentioning the extension cord and breaker?
If this is the case,.isn't there a over heat protection and a reset button like many AC motors have?
@Andy,...If you have a guy turning it on and off why do you even have a by-pass? On that note,.why not use a pressure switch?
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Wednesday 19th of October 2016 07:35:50 AM
A pressure switch will work but needs an isolator to keep the SH from messing up the switch.
Andy Hinson said
Oct 19, 2016
Well first or all I made a mistake. Its not the third pump it's about to be the fourth.
I posted this to get exactly what is being received. Excellant suggestions. I have no idea why Im still using the bypass. I didnt realize it was the problem but maybe it is.
What would be the issue with the SH taking so long to come through the line verses the soap?
All suggestions are helpful. I ma take it off tomorrow
Bryan P said
Oct 19, 2016
Andy Hinson wrote:
Well first or all I made a mistake. Its not the third pump it's about to be the fourth. I posted this to get exactly what is being received. Excellant suggestions. I have no idea why Im still using the bypass. I didnt realize it was the problem but maybe it is. What would be the issue with the SH taking so long to come through the line verses the soap? All suggestions are helpful. I ma take it off tomorrow
I have the 12 volt proportioner and it takes a long time to get bleach too. I get soap first too, but I don't know why. It suds in 30 seconds or so, but I might not have bleach for two minutes. But I just figured there's soap that stays in the line. Anyway...I'm not sure that has to do with your pump since mine does that too.
BlueRidge said
Oct 20, 2016
Bryan P wrote:
Andy Hinson wrote:
Well first or all I made a mistake. Its not the third pump it's about to be the fourth. I posted this to get exactly what is being received. Excellant suggestions. I have no idea why Im still using the bypass. I didnt realize it was the problem but maybe it is. What would be the issue with the SH taking so long to come through the line verses the soap? All suggestions are helpful. I ma take it off tomorrow
I have the 12 volt proportioner and it takes a long time to get bleach too. I get soap first too, but I don't know why. It suds in 30 seconds or so, but I might not have bleach for two minutes. But I just figured there's soap that stays in the line. Anyway...I'm not sure that has to do with your pump since mine does that too.
I built a proportioner and have been waiting for down time to install. I have read just about everything I can find on the subject from the first day Ray made the post. I have not seen the system built by The Pressure Wash Store so I am only guessing. Are all the intake hoses equal in size and length? It makes sense to me that all three hoses are the same size and length so that is the first thing that I would look at.
Bryan P said
Oct 20, 2016
BlueRidge wrote:
I built a proportioner and have been waiting for down time to install. I have read just about everything I can find on the subject from the first day Ray made the post. I have not seen the system built by The Pressure Wash Store so I am only guessing. Are all the intake hoses equal in size and length? It makes sense to me that all three hoses are the same size and length so that is the first thing that I would look at.
Brett, I don't know how they work. I just flip the switch and spray. haha.
Actually, my understanding is that the bleach and water hoses are the same length or else the ratios wouldn't work.
Fred W said
Oct 20, 2016
OK....I'll try not to get too long winded.....but I'll give you a call Andy
Dave said
Oct 20, 2016
from what I see in pictures of these units, the bypass is plumbed back into the water inlet of the pump. with these pumps that will heat the water up real fast. Also, these pumps are not real fast at pulling prime. It is best to be able to wet them until prime is made.
@Jeff, yes if you pull off the back cover there is a thermal overload reset.
Dave said
Oct 20, 2016
I run my pump with a pressure regulator bypass. The water goes back to the water tank. If you are not using a pressure switch, or a pressure regulator you are asking for trouble by dead heading these pumps
Diamond Roof Cleaning said
Oct 20, 2016
Dave do you have a picture of that set up?
Fred W said
Oct 20, 2016
Dave wrote:
these pumps are not real fast at pulling prime. It is best to be able to wet them until prime is made..
This IS the issue. You can't just turn the SH valve on then turn the pump on and wait for the SH. By doing this you are running the pump dry which will burn it up. Turn on your water by pass and fill the pump with water. Air just can't give the suction needed to draw the SH.
If you want to prime...... Turn on the water bypass. Turn on your pump Turn on your SH valve (Leave the bypass open)
Now, turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on
Keep repeating - turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on - until you see your SH line turn colors and becomes primed.
Don't stop there. Repeat the process to prime the water line Remember, the pump does not suck with air.
Steve Salley said
Oct 20, 2016
Here is our procedure that has worked every time.
We start with the booster being primed directly from the house pressure. We have a 3 way that diverts the house water from the bulk tank directly to the booster In less than a minute, really in seconds the pump is free of air and you can hear and feel the booster kick in. We then flip the 3way back to the Hudson valve on the bulk tank and flip another 3 way that feeds either directly to the booster or sends the water to the pro portioner. First we open the water valve wide open. Then we open the bleach valve to the desired setting and finally crack open the detergent valve a very little bit and we are off to the races.
If the pro portioner needs air bled from the lines, we follow the same sequence. The difference is we only open each valve one a time to the wide open setting. Once that line is flowing properly, we close it, open the bleach valve wide open until it flows fully and then close it and open the detergent valve wide open for a brief period of time.
Now it is fully operational.
-- Edited by Steve Salley on Thursday 20th of October 2016 09:14:57 PM
Steve Salley said
Oct 20, 2016
One other mistake I made was not immediately putting a fine mesh filter on the detergent line.
We use a 1/4" Id line and I just did not think it would be an issue...
It picked up some small debris and the pro portioner would not work right. Fortunately I was able to back flush and remove the obstruction. We put on a filter and no more Issues. Lesson learned
Andy Hinson said
Oct 20, 2016
Doug called today and told me I wasnt priming my SH as frequently as I should. I figured once it was primed it would stay primed. I installed the original pump today and left the bypass off. Will prime and test in the morning
Fred W said
Oct 21, 2016
Andy,
It's not that you are not priming it frequently enough. You are trying to prime with air. You need to turn the water bypass on to let water into the pump. Then, yes, prime each day or after you move to a new location.
Remember to look for an air bubble......
Dave said
Oct 21, 2016
@ Michael, here is a simple drawing of my set up. It is also very important that the inlet line, if using hose, is straight, meaning no dips in the line. This will allow air pockets to form and the pump will loose prime.
-- Edited by Dave on Friday 21st of October 2016 07:34:33 AM
Dave does that pressure relief valve open automatically? If not is the water constantly running back to the water tank? If so does the pump still put out maximum pressure when needed?
Dave said
Oct 21, 2016
you can set the regulator to what pressure you need, and excess water flows back to the tank. If you have it set to max pressure then when you close your spray valve, water is sent back to the tank. Works like a bypass.
Diamond Roof Cleaning said
Oct 21, 2016
Dave last question. Do you have a part number and a site to get that bypass regulator.
SprayWash said
Oct 21, 2016
Hey Andy sorry I've been just crazy busy with night shift this week, and then had jury duty all day today. I asked Tim to give you a shout. Feel free to give me a call at 850–5283226, it's Friday afternoon and I'm going to be able truck for a couple of hours. Going to be in a Deerstand with poor cell reception for most of the weekend.
Steve Salley said
Oct 22, 2016
Dave with that setup, are you applying chemicals with your booster or only using for rinsing?
I may be looking at it wrong but if that is used past the pro portioner, wouldn't that be putting chemicals into your bulk tank when recirculating?
Dave said
Oct 23, 2016
I do not use the pro portioner yet. I can apply chems with it or just rinse. I just switch a 3-way valve and move the hose from the pressure regulator to the correct tank. Yo are right, you would not be able to use this set up with the pro portioner. But I have not really had a time that I needed to use the booster pump to apply the cleaning detergent. I know the guys that do some huge commercial buildings can benefit greatly from it's use, but it for residential it is not needed.
Dave said
Oct 23, 2016
@Michael I will get you a pic. and part number Monday. I am Up North in the woods this weekend hunting.
Since July I am on my third booster pump replacement. Using very sporactially Im fortunate to get a month from one. It's on the booster pump skid. I cant help but believe there is some type of restriction problem that I cant find.
If I call the Power Wash Store they say you cant leave it in bypass. Andy you cant leave in bypass. Thats the only thing it can be other than your customers power source is in adequate. Neither are the case because as time consuming and costly as it is I eliminate those chances by.
We have a 100' 10 ga extension cord. We have a pigtail wired to a 30 amp breaker that we install to the customers power source. I have a man stationed at the truck to turn the pump on when Im ready to spray and turn it off when I stop. Power Wash Store will not accept the fact their could be a problem that Im not smart enough to figure out. If any one has any suggestions it will be appreciated.
-- Edited by Andy Hinson on Tuesday 18th of October 2016 09:40:07 PM
Ray and Doug use boosters but they are not on skid systems. I hope one or both will chime in. When I do the rebuild this winter I will be using the booster tank to cool the mix while in bypass. I'm also going to add a 2000 w generator just for the booster. That 10 ga cord is more than enough to handle the load. Have you considered a call to the pump manufacturer? I'm sure there is a way around this Andy.
There is a ton of good experience here so I do hope collectively there is an answer.
@Dave,..it sounds like an over heating issue leading to motor burn out to me,. simply because he's mentioning the extension cord and breaker?
If this is the case,.isn't there a over heat protection and a reset button like many AC motors have?
@Andy,...If you have a guy turning it on and off why do you even have a by-pass? On that note,.why not use a pressure switch?
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Wednesday 19th of October 2016 07:35:50 AM
The replacement Flotec from Northern Tool did the same thing and they sent a replacement. The one thats now gone bad by loosing pressure and over heating is the Flotec I was using while PWS worked on the other one.
The pumps start making cracking sounds as I am using them. I dont think thats normal but it is with my system.
I believe the stacks are going bad since thats what PWS replaced. There are no instructions for properly setting the by pass but mine seems to be straining under pressure.
With the Proportioner the soap comes through the line almost instantly. It takes a while for the SH to get through the line. Always has taken awhile.
Starts loosing pressure and getting hot and kicking off
I have been using the same booster pump for this entire season. I use the Dayton from Grainger that was being used by most until they switched units with the big one PWS switched to.
It developed a case leak and Grainger sent me a brand new pump for free. We never got around to switching it and just kept running it.
It had gotten weak as far as pushing when running thru the pro portioner last week and I thought I might have to put the shiny new one on to complete the season. But maybe not--
Last week the bypass valve blew up and could not be put back together. I had to improvise and decided to eliminate it completely. Wow! That bypass was absolutely restricting our pumps. The output is TWICE what we were getting with the bypass system plumbed in. It shoots at least 10 feet higher than before. We do not baby the pump and while we rinse it out, again I am not fanatical about doing it.
I do not allow it to run several minutes long without hitting the trigger, but we are not crazy about shutting it down everytime. I allow it to run and just hit the trigger now and then to cycle the water. Today, working by myself I finished a cedar shake roof system, and then did the housewash on 10000 square feet, gutter brightened and rinsed with just the booster. It has to be the ugliest pump we have on the truck, due to the case leaks but it just keeps pumping away!
Maybe it would be worth eliminating the bypass system and go straight thru the pump like we did.
Just my two cents worth.
A pressure switch will work but needs an isolator to keep the SH from messing up the switch.
I posted this to get exactly what is being received. Excellant suggestions. I have no idea why Im still using the bypass. I didnt realize it was the problem but maybe it is.
What would be the issue with the SH taking so long to come through the line verses the soap?
All suggestions are helpful. I ma take it off tomorrow
I have the 12 volt proportioner and it takes a long time to get bleach too. I get soap first too, but I don't know why. It suds in 30 seconds or so, but I might not have bleach for two minutes. But I just figured there's soap that stays in the line. Anyway...I'm not sure that has to do with your pump since mine does that too.
I built a proportioner and have been waiting for down time to install. I have read just about everything I can find on the subject from the first day Ray made the post. I have not seen the system built by The Pressure Wash Store so I am only guessing. Are all the intake hoses equal in size and length? It makes sense to me that all three hoses are the same size and length so that is the first thing that I would look at.
I built a proportioner and have been waiting for down time to install. I have read just about everything I can find on the subject from the first day Ray made the post. I have not seen the system built by The Pressure Wash Store so I am only guessing. Are all the intake hoses equal in size and length? It makes sense to me that all three hoses are the same size and length so that is the first thing that I would look at.
Brett, I don't know how they work. I just flip the switch and spray. haha.
Actually, my understanding is that the bleach and water hoses are the same length or else the ratios wouldn't work.
@Jeff, yes if you pull off the back cover there is a thermal overload reset.
This IS the issue. You can't just turn the SH valve on then turn the pump on and wait for the SH. By doing this you are running the pump dry which will burn it up. Turn on your water by pass and fill the pump with water. Air just can't give the suction needed to draw the SH.
If you want to prime......
Turn on the water bypass.
Turn on your pump
Turn on your SH valve (Leave the bypass open)
Now, turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on
turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on
turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on
turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on
Keep repeating - turn off the bypass for 1/2 a second then back on - until you see your SH line turn colors and becomes primed.
Don't stop there. Repeat the process to prime the water line Remember, the pump does not suck with air.
Here is our procedure that has worked every time.
We start with the booster being primed directly from the house pressure. We have a 3 way that diverts the house water from the bulk tank directly to the booster In less than a minute, really in seconds the pump is free of air and you can hear and feel the booster kick in. We then flip the 3way back to the Hudson valve on the bulk tank and flip another 3 way that feeds either directly to the booster or sends the water to the pro portioner. First we open the water valve wide open. Then we open the bleach valve to the desired setting and finally crack open the detergent valve a very little bit and we are off to the races.
If the pro portioner needs air bled from the lines, we follow the same sequence. The difference is we only open each valve one a time to the wide open setting. Once that line is flowing properly, we close it, open the bleach valve wide open until it flows fully and then close it and open the detergent valve wide open for a brief period of time.
Now it is fully operational.
-- Edited by Steve Salley on Thursday 20th of October 2016 09:14:57 PM
We use a 1/4" Id line and I just did not think it would be an issue...
It picked up some small debris and the pro portioner would not work right. Fortunately I was able to back flush and remove the obstruction. We put on a filter and no more Issues. Lesson learned
It's not that you are not priming it frequently enough. You are trying to prime with air. You need to turn the water bypass on to let water into the pump. Then, yes, prime each day or after you move to a new location.
Remember to look for an air bubble......
@ Michael, here is a simple drawing of my set up. It is also very important that the inlet line, if using hose, is straight, meaning no dips in the line. This will allow air pockets to form and the pump will loose prime.
-- Edited by Dave on Friday 21st of October 2016 07:34:33 AM
I may be looking at it wrong but if that is used past the pro portioner, wouldn't that be putting chemicals into your bulk tank when recirculating?