I would love some suggestions on this house from those who clean cedar. This is the worst side and they just want it clean and will restain what they need to. I'm only being hired to clean it (along with the roof). This is a pretty big job...some tall sides. I'd prefer to clean with SH even if I need to neutralize, but am open to suggestions.
-- Edited by Bryan P on Thursday 2nd of March 2017 11:13:42 PM
You should ask them how much pigment the new stain will have. If it's medium to high pigment I would think A light SH mix. I'm supposed to start a 7,500 sq ft cedar roof Monday. I have some similar questions. I will probably start a separate thread.
John Aloisio said
Mar 3, 2017
Bryan,
we prewet, start with a 2% solution, spray and then rinse and rinse. Then we apply a neutralizer and conditioner. Some blotchy areas might need to get a secon coat of solution. Also spray from the bottom up, to eliminate streaking. Two things, if you did not factor in on cleanu the deck...you should. second, when doing the roof watch your overspray. The stronger mix can spot the deck and might not blend correctly. Hope this helps.
waxman18324 said
Mar 3, 2017
Today we are doing this small home in Lehman Township, PA. As John has mentioned we will hit it with approximately 2%, neutralize with oxylic and rinse and then rinse some more.
When doing cedar that looks like that we prefer to use sodium percarbonate and a little sodium hydroxide. Then pressure wash with a low pressure tip. After the house is clean we apply oxalic acid and rinse. This process gives the absolute best job for staining. Make sure they know cleaning with SH might not do as good of a job as the percarb. I give them what they want but also let them know what their options are. John has some good points concerning the deck.
Bryan P said
Mar 3, 2017
Thanks guys. Yes this is a total package. Roof, house, decks, driveway, Big job.
Maverick Contracting said
Mar 3, 2017
I second Brett. The old stain will need hydrox to blend in new stain as the new will take to the more weathered better and not penetrate where there's more old stain and be blotchy. 2nd on the percarb too.
As to the deck, looks like possibly someone attempted a cleaning prior? Either way it will spot and discolor with any process unless cleaned as well. Everywhere your hose is, footprints when stepping on solution etc. No doubt
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Friday 3rd of March 2017 06:05:48 PM
Bryan P said
Mar 3, 2017
Maverick Contracting wrote:
I second Brett. The old stain will need hydrox to blend in new stain as the new will take to the more weathered better and not penetrate where there's more old stain and be blotchy. 2nd on the percarb too.
As to the deck, looks like possibly someone attempted a cleaning prior? Either way it will spot and discolor with any process unless cleaned as well. Everywhere your hose is, footprints when stepping on solution etc. No doubt
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Friday 3rd of March 2017 06:05:48 PM
Yes, we're cleaning everything. I don't think the deck has been cleaned. Looks like that because it was raining the day I was out there taking photos.
Maverick Contracting said
Mar 3, 2017
I didnt mean someone attempted to clean the deck but the siding however...
Runoff from the building esp acids from metals can clean the areas below. Look at what copper runoff on roofs does. Keeps immediate area below "cleaner", just not CLEAN🙄
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Friday 3rd of March 2017 06:45:37 PM
Bryan P said
Mar 3, 2017
Maverick Contracting wrote:
I didnt mean someone attempted to clean the deck but the siding however...
Runoff from the building esp acids from metals can clean the areas below. Look at what copper runoff on roofs does. Keeps immediate area below "cleaner", just not CLEAN🙄
Gotcha. No, It was raining and that's the dry part under the overhang you're seeing.
Maverick Contracting said
Mar 3, 2017
Lol, typical over thinking on my behalf
The usual
Roney Conca said
Mar 4, 2017
Brian, good luck on the job and please please let us know what techniques you end up using, as well as how it turned out.
Thanks.
Jeff Wible said
Mar 4, 2017
BlueRidge wrote:
When doing cedar that looks like that we prefer to use sodium percarbonate and a little sodium hydroxide. Then pressure wash with a low pressure tip. After the house is clean we apply oxalic acid and rinse. This process gives the absolute best job for staining. Make sure they know cleaning with SH might not do as good of a job as the percarb. I give them what they want but also let them know what their options are. John has some good points concerning the deck.
Brett is on point here. This job will come out much better using Sodium Percarbonate with NAOH. You could even just DS NAOH and neutralize. The high PH cleaners will darken the Cedar,.don't panic,..the oxalic will bring it right back. Application of a detergent and just "generally" rinsing will not give finished results like on vinyl siding.
Jeff
BlueRidge said
Mar 4, 2017
Jeff Wible wrote:
BlueRidge wrote:
When doing cedar that looks like that we prefer to use sodium percarbonate and a little sodium hydroxide. Then pressure wash with a low pressure tip. After the house is clean we apply oxalic acid and rinse. This process gives the absolute best job for staining. Make sure they know cleaning with SH might not do as good of a job as the percarb. I give them what they want but also let them know what their options are. John has some good points concerning the deck.
Brett is on point here. This job will come out much better using Sodium Percarbonate with NAOH. You could even just DS NAOH and neutralize. The high PH cleaners will darken the Cedar,.don't panic,..the oxalic will bring it right back. Application of a detergent and just "generally" rinsing will not give finished results like on vinyl siding.
Jeff
Ahhhhhh........ It's people like you I learned from!
Jeff Wible said
Mar 5, 2017
BlueRidge wrote:
Jeff Wible wrote:
BlueRidge wrote:
When doing cedar that looks like that we prefer to use sodium percarbonate and a little sodium hydroxide. Then pressure wash with a low pressure tip. After the house is clean we apply oxalic acid and rinse. This process gives the absolute best job for staining. Make sure they know cleaning with SH might not do as good of a job as the percarb. I give them what they want but also let them know what their options are. John has some good points concerning the deck.
Brett is on point here. This job will come out much better using Sodium Percarbonate with NAOH. You could even just DS NAOH and neutralize. The high PH cleaners will darken the Cedar,.don't panic,..the oxalic will bring it right back. Application of a detergent and just "generally" rinsing will not give finished results like on vinyl siding.
Jeff
Ahhhhhh........ It's people like you I learned from!
Hey Brett, that's what these boards are all about. We ALL learn from each other!
Jeff
Philip McCullough said
Mar 5, 2017
Great thread with a lot of great info!
Maverick Contracting said
Mar 5, 2017
"Hey Brett, that's what these boards are all about"
-Jeff
I thought these boards was an excuse for us to sit down while our techs do the work?
Makes us look like we're working, kinda like putting lunch on the company card and saying it was a business meeting.
Jeff Wible said
Mar 5, 2017
I should clarify my response. Sodium Percarbonate and NAOH are the way to tackle this type work. My recommendation of DS'ing is factor based. The way the stain looks from here it should come of rather easily,...So DS'ing may work,...but certain parts of the house,.like under the soffit, where the Sun doesn't hit,..may need a stronger solution. So a dedicated application may be needed. This needs to simply be determined by the contractor. Usually if it comes off with a scraping of the finger nail,..it can be DS'ed. At least that's been my experience.
@Maverick,...Yes,.many guys spend alot of time on here,..but look at what they learn to then convey to their helpers,..to make their lives easier.
Jeff
Bryan P said
Mar 5, 2017
Are you saying that if Sodium Percarbonate/Oxalic is used that it requires pressure washing ever board to make it look good? That's been my experience when I've used it on decks. I've never used it with Sodium Hydroxide, though.
Maverick Contracting said
Mar 5, 2017
To add...
I would apply the NAOH 1st, rinse, Percarb 2nd, rinse, then Ox (to neutralize both bases and brighten).
Oh and definitely rinse the Oxalic acid before stain.
Extra steps? Not in my book. A little extra time now a lot less chance of stain failure and redo later.
Jeff, that's a good line!😅
(part honesty part sarcastically)
I,m gonna use it either way😉
Maverick Contracting said
Mar 5, 2017
Byron For me the answer is yes PW if restaining. This isn't a cosmetic cleaning but a surface prep cleaning. You need to get off the dead weak wood and stain to have good results restaining. There is a significant difference between softwashing and surface prepping. It's important to ask potential customers what they are looking to achieve or planning on doing after a cleaning.
Many times I have uneducated customers have their house "washed" either by themselves or another ("help" or contractor) now asking for a "just needs paint" quote. I will not do any work if I don't do the prep first. If the paint fails, I don't want my name associated.
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Sunday 5th of March 2017 02:51:57 PM
Jeff Wible said
Mar 5, 2017
Maverick Contracting wrote:
Byron For me the answer is yes PW if restaining. This isn't a cosmetic cleaning but a surface prep cleaning. You need to get off the dead weak wood and stain to have good results restaining. There is a significant difference between softwashing and surface prepping. It's important to ask potential customers what they are looking to achieve or planning on doing after a cleaning.
Many times I have uneducated customers have their house "washed" either by themselves or another ("help" or contractor) now asking for a "just needs paint" quote. I will not do any work if I don't do the prep first. If the paint fails, I don't want my name associated.
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Sunday 5th of March 2017 02:51:57 PM
Good points there Maverick!!
Bryan P said
Mar 5, 2017
Maverick Contracting wrote:
There is a significant difference between softwashing and surface prepping. It's important to ask potential customers what they are looking to achieve or planning on doing after a cleaning.
Ok, I see. Well they don't WANT to restain, but will take further steps (maybe even later) if the cleaning reveals the need. I think it will. I'd like to kill the algae and clean the siding, but I'm not being hired to strip stain, nor do I want to. I'm being asked to soft wash the house, roof, decks, and concrete. Matter of fact, they don't even want us to pressure wash the driveway. Soft wash only.
Jeff Wible said
Mar 5, 2017
Bryan,..you can do as you wish,..but allow me to give you a piece of advice,..take it or leave it. You are the one with the knowledge of how to handle the work properly and accordingly. Washing this siding with a basic SH and soap with rinse isn't gonna yield the results they may be looking for. Unless they are really not very picky. From here,..that job looks as though it needs sold for what it is. If nothing else at least tell them what they are likely gonna end up with.
The deck and concrete both will need an amount of PSI to get proper results. Decks like this are commonly done with 600-1000 PSI,..along with the proper cleaners. Don't get talked into this type work according to their views.
Concrete,.depending on how bad it is needs pressure of 1500 or more to be finished when you walk away,..GPM makes a big difference in the amount of PSI needed for wood or concrete.
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Sunday 5th of March 2017 05:38:53 PM
Maverick Contracting said
Mar 5, 2017
Hear ya Bryan.
Give em what they want for the price You want and have it in writing.
A common phase in the service industry is
"Under promise and Over deliver "
Good luck on the project
Bryan P said
Mar 5, 2017
Jeff Wible wrote:
Bryan,..you can do as you wish,..but allow me to give you a piece of advice,..take it or leave it. You are the one with the knowledge of how to handle the work properly and accordingly. Washing this siding with a basic SH and soap with rinse isn't gonna yield the results they may be looking for. Unless they are really not very picky. From here,..that job looks as though it needs sold for what it is. If nothing else at least tell them what they are likely gonna end up with.
The deck and concrete both will need an amount of PSI to get proper results. Decks like this are commonly done with 600-1000 PSI,..along with the proper cleaners. Don't get talked into this type work according to their views.
Concrete,.depending on how bad it is needs pressure of 1500 or more to be finished when you walk away,..GPM makes a big difference in the amount of PSI needed for wood or concrete.
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Sunday 5th of March 2017 05:38:53 PM
Thanks Jeff. I asked for advice and I do appreciate it. I've got almost six weeks to come up with a plan.
Jeff Wible said
Mar 6, 2017
Hey Bryan, you may consider doing a demo for them. And see which they prefer. Demos can be done inconspicuously, it doesn't take a huge area to see what you're gonna get with each method. And then you'll know where you're at with the job. Heck,.I've been doing this for 21 years and I still do test spots on cedar houses, log houses and brick,.. some surfaces can throw you a curve ball. Demo's are very handy when it comes to pricing work.
Jeff
Bryan P said
Mar 6, 2017
Jeff Wible wrote:
Hey Bryan, you may consider doing a demo for them. And see which they prefer. Demos can be done inconspicuously, it doesn't take a huge area to see what you're gonna get with each method. And then you'll know where you're at with the job. Heck,.I've been doing this for 21 years and I still do test spots on cedar houses, log houses and brick,.. some surfaces can throw you a curve ball. Demo's are very handy when it comes to pricing work.
Jeff
I will definitely do that. Gotta wait on them to own the house though. I'm working for the buyers.
All Kleen Softwash Systems said
Mar 10, 2017
So much good information, i learn something every time I get on here.
I would love some suggestions on this house from those who clean cedar. This is the worst side and they just want it clean and will restain what they need to. I'm only being hired to clean it (along with the roof). This is a pretty big job...some tall sides. I'd prefer to clean with SH even if I need to neutralize, but am open to suggestions.
-- Edited by Bryan P on Thursday 2nd of March 2017 11:13:42 PM
Bryan,
we prewet, start with a 2% solution, spray and then rinse and rinse. Then we apply a neutralizer and conditioner. Some blotchy areas might need to get a secon coat of solution. Also spray from the bottom up, to eliminate streaking. Two things, if you did not factor in on cleanu the deck...you should. second, when doing the roof watch your overspray. The stronger mix can spot the deck and might not blend correctly. Hope this helps.
Today we are doing this small home in Lehman Township, PA. As John has mentioned we will hit it with approximately 2%, neutralize with oxylic and rinse and then rinse some more.
Hank
When doing cedar that looks like that we prefer to use sodium percarbonate and a little sodium hydroxide. Then pressure wash with a low pressure tip. After the house is clean we apply oxalic acid and rinse. This process gives the absolute best job for staining. Make sure they know cleaning with SH might not do as good of a job as the percarb. I give them what they want but also let them know what their options are. John has some good points concerning the deck.
I second Brett. The old stain will need hydrox to blend in new stain as the new will take to the more weathered better and not penetrate where there's more old stain and be blotchy.
2nd on the percarb too.
As to the deck, looks like possibly someone attempted a cleaning prior? Either way it will spot and discolor with any process unless cleaned as well. Everywhere your hose is, footprints when stepping on solution etc. No doubt
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Friday 3rd of March 2017 06:05:48 PM
Yes, we're cleaning everything. I don't think the deck has been cleaned. Looks like that because it was raining the day I was out there taking photos.
I didnt mean someone attempted to clean the deck but the siding however...
Runoff from the building esp acids from metals can clean the areas below. Look at what copper runoff on roofs does. Keeps immediate area below "cleaner", just not CLEAN🙄
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Friday 3rd of March 2017 06:45:37 PM
Gotcha. No, It was raining and that's the dry part under the overhang you're seeing.
The usual
Brett is on point here. This job will come out much better using Sodium Percarbonate with NAOH. You could even just DS NAOH and neutralize. The high PH cleaners will darken the Cedar,.don't panic,..the oxalic will bring it right back. Application of a detergent and just "generally" rinsing will not give finished results like on vinyl siding.
Jeff
Ahhhhhh........ It's people like you I learned from!
Hey Brett, that's what these boards are all about. We ALL learn from each other!
Jeff
-Jeff
I thought these boards was an excuse for us to sit down while our techs do the work?
Makes us look like we're working, kinda like putting lunch on the company card and saying it was a business meeting.
@Maverick,...Yes,.many guys spend alot of time on here,..but look at what they learn to then convey to their helpers,..to make their lives easier.
Jeff
I would apply the NAOH 1st, rinse, Percarb 2nd, rinse, then Ox (to neutralize both bases and brighten).
Oh and definitely rinse the Oxalic acid before stain.
Extra steps? Not in my book. A little extra time now a lot less chance of stain failure and redo later.
Jeff, that's a good line!😅
(part honesty part sarcastically)
I,m gonna use it either way😉
Byron
For me the answer is yes PW if restaining.
This isn't a cosmetic cleaning but a surface prep cleaning. You need to get off the dead weak wood and stain to have good results restaining.
There is a significant difference between softwashing and surface prepping.
It's important to ask potential customers what they are looking to achieve or planning on doing after a cleaning.
Many times I have uneducated customers have their house "washed" either by themselves or another ("help" or contractor) now asking for a "just needs paint" quote. I will not do any work if I don't do the prep first. If the paint fails, I don't want my name associated.
-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Sunday 5th of March 2017 02:51:57 PM
Good points there Maverick!!
Ok, I see. Well they don't WANT to restain, but will take further steps (maybe even later) if the cleaning reveals the need. I think it will. I'd like to kill the algae and clean the siding, but I'm not being hired to strip stain, nor do I want to. I'm being asked to soft wash the house, roof, decks, and concrete. Matter of fact, they don't even want us to pressure wash the driveway. Soft wash only.
Bryan,..you can do as you wish,..but allow me to give you a piece of advice,..take it or leave it. You are the one with the knowledge of how to handle the work properly and accordingly. Washing this siding with a basic SH and soap with rinse isn't gonna yield the results they may be looking for. Unless they are really not very picky. From here,..that job looks as though it needs sold for what it is. If nothing else at least tell them what they are likely gonna end up with.
The deck and concrete both will need an amount of PSI to get proper results. Decks like this are commonly done with 600-1000 PSI,..along with the proper cleaners. Don't get talked into this type work according to their views.
Concrete,.depending on how bad it is needs pressure of 1500 or more to be finished when you walk away,..GPM makes a big difference in the amount of PSI needed for wood or concrete.
Jeff
-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Sunday 5th of March 2017 05:38:53 PM
Give em what they want for the price You want and have it in writing.
A common phase in the service industry is
"Under promise and Over deliver "
Good luck on the project
Thanks Jeff. I asked for advice and I do appreciate it. I've got almost six weeks to come up with a plan.
Jeff
I will definitely do that. Gotta wait on them to own the house though. I'm working for the buyers.
So much good information, i learn something every time I get on here.