Power Washing and Roof Cleaning Forum

Art O · Approved Exterior Cleaner

RE: Cedar Roofs

John Aloisio · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Thanks.

Steve Salley · Approved Exterior Cleaner

We use it too. Does anyone know the chemistry AC used in making the product? I have been speaking with Univar about a neutralizer for SH.

I like Bleach Wash, but I am just interested in knowing the science behind the products that neutralize SH

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Hey Steve, there is nothing that will totally neutralize SH. Salt cannot be neutralized, only diluted. So to put SH neutralizer on something and expect everything to be good could get you in a mess. Although a neutralizer may counteract certain properties of bleach it WILL NOT neutralize salt. Dilution is the solution!

Jeff

Steve Salley · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Hi Jeff

I agree with your statement. Our procedure when using Bleach Wash is to allow dwell time and then follow with rinsing.

I am trying to understand more about cedar wood in particular, because I do think there is merit to what is being said about the value of removing the mold, algae, bacteria etc clogging the cedar wood, versus doing nothing because the homeowner cannot afford a total restoration.

From the work posted on the forum, it looks to be a real good option for homeowners.

Accuwash · Approved Exterior Cleaner

We offer both methods. The power wash method will always look better and comand a higher price, but most will go with the SW method.

Bruce Sullivan · RIP

Patrick G wrote:
I dont think Bruce Sullivan uses a power washer.........

You are correct I do not, though I do use a booster pump that goes to 50 psi mostly to knock off lichen/moss. A lot of homes have low water pressure and then when you run through 200' of garden hose pressure drops. I rinse strictly with a garden hose.

Glad to see more are entering into cleaning cedar. There is a big market throughout the country. I been cleaning them since 2010, that is all we do now days other then asphalt, tile, etc. from realtors requests.

As to the process, I won't touch that subject, tends to be a hot button. wink I say use whatever works best for the cleaner. As long as the cleaning maintains the roof function, helps extend the lifespan and the home owner is happy you have done your job.

Patrick G · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Bruce will you ever share your method or no?

Diamond Roof Cleaning · Approved Exterior Cleaner

If he has a niche solution why would he share it?

Art O · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Diamond roof Cleaning wrote:
If he has a niche solution why would he share it?

Here's a question for you Mike. How did Bruce learn Roof Cleaning. Did he pick up a book or did here learn the trade of Roof Cleaning from all us X members of the RCIA. It seems its all take and no give with Bruce

Diamond Roof Cleaning · Approved Exterior Cleaner

I hear what you are saying art and I agree with you to an extent. I look at it like this. If I came up with something that no one else is using I don't think I would share it either. I would maybe sell the rights to it as a franchise.

There are only a few different chemical that he can be using. If you can get your hands on some old cedar shakes then you can do the testing out to find what works and what dosent.

Brian C Jackson · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Diamond roof Cleaning wrote:
If he has a niche solution why would he share it?

Mike have members shared with you? Shared SEO hints? Shared techniques? I hope yiur answer is yes. I personally have learned from your posts here and @ RCIA. So I always feel the need to share and help others that have helped me. To help others better there business and help them make a. Better income and this applies to even roof cleaners in NH that I have reached out to as well as in other states. I have to say I agree with Art and if there wasnt so much drama attached to this subject I would share a true story that woukd outrage alot of the members here but I stay away from this drama. Drama anf individualism is what killed RCIA as well as alot of other issues. NSWA is a great place to finally be and has a great feeling to participate , share and help build something better for all of us and our businesses. If there are some that dont want to share and contribute and give back then I feel like they need to move on. I think we can all agree that Art has worked his ass off on the forum and harder that anyone, in fact it makes me feel guilty that i havent contributed more than I have to date. But I will say this the end of Bruces post has no place and no meaning. It is only geared to to cause drama. Why? Because we all know he has reinveted the wheel and has no intrest in sharing to help others who have helped him. That is his right and no one can take that away from him , but that belief has no reason to be here. If he contributes and gives back I will appologize for what I have posted but this is the truth and it is evident in his actions. Buy the way there is no ducumented right way to clean cedar just like there is no golden rule on how to clean roof shingles. We all here believe in the safe non pressure or softwash application but that is how we feel. If there was a building code or state code to cleaning a cedar roof or shingle roof we would have to follow it or lose a license or flunk an inspection. In all of Bruces posts and blogs he always says he only cares about properly cleaning cedar to male sure the homeowner is taken care of the right way. Really? Then why until now has he not shared one bit of help to anyone here. Also another point he always makes is that he is so sucessful and has such a dominace in his market of roof cleaning that he never worrys about competition. Really ? Then why not help others to see this newly inveted wheel. ??

Diamond Roof Cleaning · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Brian I hear you and I agree. I just know that personally because my market is very flooded with competition that if I knew something that my competitor's didn't I probably wouldn't share it until someone figured it out.

Brian C Jackson · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Mike I also here you and I under stand. We all have completion to different degrees and it is good business to keep some things to your self. But come on do you really believe that helping someone in Texas will come back and bite you in the ass. Everyone is entitled to run there business the way they want and keep all the knowledge to them selves and that is the truth. But This subject has no place here and neither does his type of belief. If I had someone reach out to me and ask me how to do a radius arch on vinyl siding because they saw me do it I would gladly share it. Why? Because that would help another contractor make a little extra money because of the added labor. 2nd of all it would help another contractor make his customer happy which would help his business in so many ways(curb appeal, referrals) . I highly doubt sharing radius arch will hurt my vinyl business.

Bruce Sullivan · RIP

Diamond roof Cleaning wrote:
I hear what you are saying art and I agree with you to an extent. I look at it like this. If I came up with something that no one else is using I don't think I would share it either. I would maybe sell the rights to it as a franchise.

There are only a few different chemical that he can be using. If you can get your hands on some old cedar shakes then you can do the testing out to find what works and what dosent.

Now that is a businessman's response. It isn't personal just business. As I recall I paid my dues to join different forums which gave me the right to learn what I wish, just like everyone else. I still pay my dues every year to all the different forums even though I have a very successful roof cleaning service. I haven't forgot where I came from. I cannot count the leads I have passed on that have come from the PRCA forum. I have three other roof cleaning services that I have personally trained, at no charge, and shared my process with. In my world it is called networking. There will be others this coming season.

When I feel the time is right and others truly want to network, not just get something for nothing, I'll share some more concerning how "I" clean cedar roofs. So let's not make it personal, it is business.

I didn't come on here to start playing the same ole game, one I don't need it and two at the end of the day I have a service business just like everyone else.

So let's be real. Whether you like me or not, agree with me or not, doesn't matter to me. That's a personal choice. I didn't get where I am today living on forums, roof cleaning isn't rocket science. I learned the basic's on the forums just like everyone has. I just took it another step further, found a niche and developed it through many months/years of trial and error.

So, I have spent a lot of time and money developing what I use today. No one called me and said hey Bruce I'll help you or invest some money to help when everyone knew I was cleaning cedar roofs. No after I did all the work everyone wanted to be my friend then. I am sure you can see where I am going with this.

All the information is out there, I found it, so can others. As for sharing, all I can say is each to their own opinion.

There is a wide open cedar roof cleaning market out there and plenty of room for everyone that wants to get into that service. I cannot tell you how many calls I get every season from Home Owners from all over the county and Canada wanting to know if I know someone the uses my process I could recommend to clean their cedar roof. I pass on the leads where I can and I don't even charge for the leads. Again, networking or building a network by doing so.

I think many are missing the boat. When it comes to cedar cleaning, I get e-mails from my other network cleaners saying " hey Bruce saw your name on this forum or that forum about cedar cleaning " or I notice it myself. That's fine.

If it was me I wouldn't focus so much on how it is done, but how is he or they getting all the business. The branding/marketing. Anyone can be the best roof cleaner or have a simple process but if you cannot sell or close the job it means nothing.

I work from April 15th to November 15th every season and take the winter off, though I don't really take the winter off in a sense because I work on marketing/branding. Also networking, which is why I am on here, nothing more or nothing less. If it works out fine, if not I'll move on. There is nothing on this forum being said that hasn't been said hundreds of times over on other forums. But, there is the opportunity to develop some networking relationships. As a businessman I always look for networking relationships which have to result in a win/win situation or why bother.

If I had one thing to bring to the industry it would be branding/marketing. That is what gets my phone to ring. It isn't done by selling or offering discounts, it comes from educating the home owner. That is the true "secret" LOL to cedar roof cleaning.

I make well into the six figures every season cleaning just cedar. My service isn't cheap, I don't discount my service and I quote just once with no follow up. I can do that because I take the time to educate the home owner. I also have built a good branding of my service. At the end of the day the potential customer wants to know " what's in it for them, not what's in it for you".

I have read all the posts, here and everywhere else about cedar. Yes I do use a different cleaning mix, but that doesn't mean some of what is talked about doesn't work, it will. Once to realize that it isn't so much what you use but how you use it. The proper amount and combination. That will also be determined by what infestation you are dealing with also. Every cedar roof will be different i.e. infestation(s), grade of shake, climate, ambient temperature, roof pitch, age of shakes, installation, tree cover, etc.. It isn't all about the cleaning solution because one mix doesn't fit all and you'll only learn that from experience. Been there done that!

I have never claimed to be a cedar roof cleaning expert, but I do have the experience because I "have" personally cleaned over 400 cedar roofs without one negative review or unsatisfied customer. Whatever I am doing works for me and my customers and in the end that is all that counts.

So what is the secret to success in any business?

" The successful person gets up everyday and follows through on what they are talking about, the failure person gets up everyday and just keeps talking about doing it."

Have a nice day.

Note: Also, for those I do choose to share with network would be one on one not in an open forum for the world to read. Dah. Or to pass on virtual over the internet.

-- Edited by Bruce Sullivan on Thursday 19th of December 2013 10:19:51 AM

Patrick G · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Wow that was alot to read from everyone! I just want to say I see all sides of this discussion and we should now just move on. Every man has the right to ask questions, be pissed off and vent...thats all good, sometimes thats what guys gotta do! In the old days if it went any further you were sent away for a "rest " and thats why we are all here.....we want a different direction. I'm glad to see everyone on here, and thats what we all wanted, come in "shoot the **** " and leave. So that being said if you still want to vent get it on out, if not let this thread get back to what it's all about....cedar cleaning, and getting me somthing for Christmas.............

AC Lockyer · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Steve Salley wrote:

We use it too. Does anyone know the chemistry AC used in making the product? I have been speaking with Univar about a neutralizer for SH.

I like Bleach Wash, but I am just interested in knowing the science behind the products that neutralize SH

SoftWash Systems Plant Wash actually neutralizes bleach, SoftWash Systems Bleach Wash actually buffers bleach.

AC

Bruce Sullivan · RIP

AC Lockyer wrote:
Steve Salley wrote:

We use it too. Does anyone know the chemistry AC used in making the product? I have been speaking with Univar about a neutralizer for SH.

I like Bleach Wash, but I am just interested in knowing the science behind the products that neutralize SH
SoftWash Systems Plant Wash actually neutralizes bleach, SoftWash Systems Bleach Wash actually buffers bleach.
AC

AC gave me a bucket at the Des Moines show and it does work. I used it on some asphalt roof cleanings and one lady was going to dig up her plants and start new ones. I went back 10 days or so after the cleaning and the plants were fine. The lady even ask me " I thought you said you were going to kill off the plants for me". LOL I explained I was trying out a new product for me and it worked. I didn't use a run off system from the downspouts that I use and it did neutralize the chlorine as there was no burn out from the downspouts either. I don't use chlorine in my mix that often but when I do the plant wash has worked for me. I use to use gypsum pellets to neutralize. The plant wash works better.

Art O · Approved Exterior Cleaner

In the Spring I think I'm going to order 5 gallons of the plant wash and try it. There has been a lot of positive reviews on it.

John Aloisio · Approved Exterior Cleaner

We use plant wash and it does work. If the job has no gutters, we give the plants a quick treatment of PW and it put a coating over them, do the cleaning and then another treatment. We have had no issues. I still stress to my guys that the roots need to be flooded also. Bruce, we also use pelletized gypsum. We mix it 1:1 with dehydrated cow manure and keep a 5 gallon pail on each truck. We use it around rose bushes and at downspouts on nice grass areas, for future rainfall that will re activate some chems.

Doug Rucker · Vender

Diamond roof Cleaning wrote:
Brian I hear you and I agree. I just know that personally because my market is very flooded with competition that if I knew something that my competitor's didn't I probably wouldn't share it until someone figured it out.

I agree Mike...gotta say I can't blame Bruce for not sharing a cleaning mix that he came up with, in the open world. I know there are certain products that I use that I would never share on the net, as well as certain advertising/marketing things I use. I think sharing cleaning procedures, safety issues, some advertising, and even some cleaning mixes is fine and good to share. But I think we sometimes need to be careful on these forums about the information we share as there to many people out there that will take what we say and get out there and undercut us, or worse damage property because they didn't get the full and detailed procedures. I think that is one of the problems with Florida, way to much information out there that has been given out in public forums.

Bruce Sullivan · RIP

jaloisio wrote:
We use plant wash and it does work. If the job has no gutters, we give the plants a quick treatment of PW and it put a coating over them, do the cleaning and then another treatment. We have had no issues. I still stress to my guys that the roots need to be flooded also. Bruce, we also use pelletized gypsum. We mix it 1:1 with dehydrated cow manure and keep a 5 gallon pail on each truck. We use it around rose bushes and at downspouts on nice grass areas, for future rainfall that will re activate some chems.

Great idea with the manure. Thanks for the heads up.

lkendall · Approved Exterior Cleaner

You all are harsh.. Bruce has helped me out.... And I didn't even contact him about it!

Patrick G · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Easy Lee, little exchange worked itself out. Bruce is okay, let laying dogs lie..........

Brian C Jackson · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Patrick G wrote:
Easy Lee, little exchange worked itself out. Bruce is okay, let laying dogs lie..........

Well done pat..

Steve Salley · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Thanks for the info AC
I do not have a chemistry background, but I do like to understand how our products work.

I also like the reminders that each company is an independent business and we can choose what level of inside information we want to disclose on an open forum, and how we elect to benefit from the rest of our hard earned trade secrets.

Some choose to build their pump systems, others want to buy a ready made system. Which is right? Each one has to decide for themselves.

Part of the process of building a successful business is to enjoy and or endure growing pains.

I think that is why we choose be self employed. Why else would you do that to yourself!

Accuwash · Approved Exterior Cleaner

That exchange was well handled. Bruce got a bad rap at RCIA and the inside stories over there are way deeper than they appear on the outside as many of you experienced first hand. I thought he was a bad guy at one time but I have met him and I think he's a fine fella. Many positions where misconstrued and distorted and some of us made bad decisions that looked worse than what was really going on. Anyway we spray em with the SH and we don't remove the moss unless we are hired to PW it. Then we use precarb, hydroxide and oxalic to brighten. I like what you said about there is no one way to clean cedar or asphalt Brian. It's true. I have a document from a cedar manufacturer that says either way is fine. Can't post it now I'm not in MD today. I know of a asphalt roofing manufacturer that only hires through a Pw vendor for warranty work. They Pw all their asphalt shingles. We prefer SW but really whatever the regs and manufacturers say tends to be the way it's going to get done. Another example is there was a large foam roof power washed and the pics and article ended up on RCIA. Lots of us where like wtf? They voided the warranty? How'd they get away with that? So I called the company that did it. The city would not allow the use of any chemicals on that site due to location and runoff hazards. The company consulted with the manufacturer and they concluded that rappelling with power wash was the way to go. They had no real choice and the warranty and roof are still in tact.

Power Washing Charlottesville · Veteran Member

Now this was an interesting exchange lol... loved it.

I have done a lot of research about cedar roof cleaning before getting to this thread and already had a grasp on what could be one of the best/safest ways to clean cedar shakes and I read some of that here.

Pat, your response to Lee's immature comment was awesome. Much respect for that.

I have found one product that peaks my interest and it's Wash Safe Cedar Wash. I'm wondering if anyone here has used it? https://washsafe.com/products/cedar-wash

phillipb · Member

Excellent info in here. Thank you!

Admin · Head Quarters

When all the guys were here!